| circusking |
 Posted: 12/02/2006 at 11:00 PM Post subject: Hollow vs Solid aluminum necks? |
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I'm wondering if anyone can enlighten me on this. I'm having Kevin over at EGC make me a bass and I can't decide if I want hollow or solid (neck). Can anyone shine some light on this subject?
Thanks!
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| hogrot |
| Posted: 12/02/2006 at 11:39 PM Post subject: |
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Great question.
I'm in the exact same situation and seek the same feedback.
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| MetalNecks |
| Posted: 12/02/2006 at 11:50 PM Post subject: |
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Hello
I would give Kevin a call. I'm sure it all comes down to weight and balance. I don't think there will be any issue with play or tone. If memory serves me correct, Tim Midgett's baritone had a thick neck and was hollowed out. Might be worth sending an email via Bottomless Pit
http://www.bottomlesspit.us
http://www.bottomlesspit.us/contact.html
HTH
MetalNecks
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| Barry Bergeron |
| Posted: 12/03/2006 at 07:11 AM Post subject: solid or hollow info from Bergeron Guitars |
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Hello Metalnecks
Bergeron Guitars has done extensive testing to answer the solid or hollow neck question. We have built both. Although we have not tested a bass guitar specifically, we have tested our seven string guitars for this issue. These guitars play down to B below E.
The question for us -- is the difference in sound worth the difference in weight? The difference in weight is almost four pounds for the standard six string guitar neck. The difference in sound is extremely subtle. It can be seen on the spectrum analysis as slightly more harmonic resonance. (Less than 10 percent.) Also, we see slightly quieter in the quiet regions of the spectrum. This might be more important. Time will tell about this.
Can this difference be heard? Played at full volume onstage through a Hartke stack -- I am not prepared to weigh in on this just yet. Standing in the studio with the two different types of neck in a side-by-side comparison using the same electronics for both? -- the short answer is no. Some people say they can tell, and some people say they cannot. For me the difference is so subtle as to fall into the same category as the argument about the difference between rosewood or maple neck. Is there a difference in sound? Surely there is. Can anyone proved to me that they can tell the difference by hearing only? To prove this, someone would have to correctly identify the guitar neck material correctly at least 75 times out of 100. Someone could randomly guess 50 percent. Fifty percent can not be considered to be definitive. If any of you know of anyone who can correctly identify the difference between a maple and a rosewood neck purely by listening I would absolutely like to contact this person. This person could be a huge asset to an aluminum guitar maker.
we build hollow necks by default. Of course we can build solid -- no problem. I'll never sell my prototype solid neck seven string. It does sound beautiful, but let's get back to perspective here. Merely by eliminating the standing waves that the guitar string sets up in the wood neck, the aluminum neck is already starting from a huge advantage. We are free to proceed from there with the discussion about harmonic resonance, structural stability, and so on in a manner that we cannot even apply to wood.
thx
Barry Bergeron
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| Barry Bergeron |
| Posted: 12/03/2006 at 07:22 AM Post subject: from Bergeron |
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sorry, got distracted. My guess is that if you get a hollow neck bass, you will never be disappointed with it's sound, and 20 years from now you won't mind hanging on to it for 2 hours on stage.
Barry
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| hogrot |
| Posted: 12/03/2006 at 09:48 AM Post subject: |
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Thanks Barry.
I'm not at all concerned about weight. I play a bean, a les paul and a pbass and they're all on the heavy side.
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| Barry Bergeron |
| Posted: 12/03/2006 at 10:10 AM Post subject: solid or holoow |
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Hogrot
my solid seven string weighs 12 pounds. this is not objectionable to me. there may infact be a more noticable difference in the feel of it in my hands. this thing pops the note from the speakers. there is about a 2 second clip of it on our site. clip is labeled "luna picks". go to events arlington at the bottom of the page where vids are. maybe you can hear something there that you like.
thx
Barry
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| hogrot |
| Posted: 12/03/2006 at 3:18 PM Post subject: |
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Barry
I can't find luna picks but the soundclips of your guitar definitely do sound more resonant and punchy than the les paul if that's what you're comapring it against. Aluminum guitars are so much more percussive, that's why I dig them so much.
All the aluminum guitars I've seen, the beans, electricals, velenos, kramers, vaccaros, they've all got signature headstocks. The veleno headstocks are hideous but I dig all the others. What's your reasoning with the steinberger headstock?
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| Barry Bergeron |
| Posted: 12/03/2006 at 5:30 PM Post subject: ethics and aluminum guitars from Bergeron |
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hogrot, metalnecks, and all
i want to be careful here about mentioning my stuff including my site. i don't want to be spamming. i just want to talk about why i think aluminum is better. let me just say that i know there are problems with my site. i will fix them and try to avoid mentioning it for possibly being misunderstood.
why did i choose the style that i did? i just like it, but i like lots of styles. i like most headstocks including the Veleno's. as a kid i saw both Mark Farner and Johnny Winter play these guitars. this might be a big reason why i like them. those guys are rock heros to me. btw - i think i consider John Veleno a hero also.
watch out - more about us - we are a custom shop and we can do alot. if i am going to put a headstock on one of our guitars, i will try to sell you on the idea of the fake headstock without tuning keys. two quick reasons. we are fairly intollerant of neck heaviness and we are careful about contributing to this. also, i am always in favor of eliminating the length of string north of the nut (and south of the bridge). you don't get to use it and it contributes to tuning instability if it is not locked down. also, i will use the larger body size because small body with the headstock looks out of proportion and not correct to me. while we are on the subject of looks, i'll say one more thing. our distinctive tailstock is not required. only it's function is. i can change the style and still have it work the same.
thanks for letting me say what i want. i have opinions on wether Eric Clapton is a god or sucks (or George Bush for that matter). i will weigh in on practically any issue (just ask my wife) at my own disgression. i want a place where i can contribute to the evolution of the electric guitar. my opinion, aluminum is evidence of this evolution. what do you think? hopefully you will be constructive and totally honest. you won't ever hurt my feelings.
thx
Barry
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| Barry Bergeron |
| Posted: 12/03/2006 at 5:36 PM Post subject: metalnecks site |
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is there an email notification function for metalnecks. this feature is useful to me.
thx
Barry
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| Barry Bergeron |
| Posted: 12/03/2006 at 7:04 PM Post subject: |
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sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread. i still think the hollow aluminum neck is best. i'll be more careful in the future.
Barry
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| gse |
| Posted: 12/03/2006 at 11:19 PM Post subject: |
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when i made my tb500 copy i left the neck solid, basically at the time i made it i wasnt sure on the right way to go about hollowing it out. its really heavy which i put up with because it sounds awsome. if and when i make another i will definitely hollow it out.
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| Barry Bergeron |
| Posted: 12/04/2006 at 12:21 AM Post subject: |
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yes, hollowing out is tricky to be sure. i'm curious to know how you went about making an aluminum neck in the first place. should the topic of manufacturing techniques be a new thread?
Barry
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| MetalNecks |
| Posted: 12/04/2006 at 08:21 AM Post subject: |
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Hello
I think that's a great idea to bust that into a new thread. I myself am very curious of the process. Hopefully other makers will be able to contribute as well.
Thanks!
MetalNecks
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| gse |
| Posted: 12/04/2006 at 10:47 PM Post subject: |
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re: Barrys qustion
i had a machinist cut away the bulk from a slab of 6061 aluminium. i then made up a jig on which i just used a timber router with an aluminium cutting tip to get the radius on the back of the neck. the jig was basically an offset motorless lathe. i just milled it and moved it a little at a time to get the basic curve. from memory it was a 22 - 32 mm radius. after which i just used a sander with wet and dry paper worked my way from 40 grit down to 2000 grit to make it smooth. used a two part marine epoxy to attatch the fretboard. have probably left out a lot but thats the basic method i used. fine and kind of fun for a one off but not the most efficient way of making one. if you want to check out some photos or have a listen
http://www.myspace.com/superpussy2
cheers
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| Barry Bergeron |
| Posted: 12/05/2006 at 07:54 AM Post subject: |
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gse
i do know your method. i have used this for other things, but not on guitar necks. got to say that this much tenacity shows that you gotta have this aluminum guitar neck. i think the reason why might be interesting. maybe you all are interested in a new thread about music with the aluminum giutar. i could talk about your song. (i like it)
Barry
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| HARYK |
| Posted: 12/07/2006 at 08:52 AM Post subject: Hollow vs Solid aluminum necks? |
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is this part of the reason that TB first built guitars with wood fret boards bonded directly to the neck and then later switched to bonding the wood fretboard to a 3/32 aluminum plate which was then bonded to the neck? where the TB neck hollowed out? where there bonding issues?
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